Nightline Sucks

05/10/07

Permalink 09:02:16 am, by Roulette Email , 689 words, 107 views   English (US)
Categories: Daily Life, Science

Nightline Sucks

I don't normally watch the show. I admit that.

When I heard they were going to have a debate segment focusing on the belief in God, I was intrigued. The people debating... left me with a little bit of a sour taste in my mouth. They chose Kirk Cameron (oh yeah, banana boy!!) and Ray Comfort to represent the religious point of view. Now, for the most part, those two are junior varsity at best. Probably the practice squad. In no way would I consider them serious voices for the religious movement. They initiated the debate by claiming they would prove God's existence without requiring the use of faith, and they would also prove that evolution is a fairy tale. Bold words

Of course, that was until I heard who their opponents would be. The Rational Response Squad (from the Blasphemy Challenge fame) was chosen to represent the atheist / scientific viewpoint. These two are web idols that are every bit as much of a sideshow as Cameron and Comfort. However, they had a much easier position. They didn't have to prove that God doesn't exist, just that Cameron and Comfort failed to prove it.

With neither side well represented, my expectations were fairly low going into the debate. After finding video of the debate, I watched it. It was better than expected. Both sides made a number of fairly standard arguments on the issue. Comfort's opening salvo was an attempt to prove a creator with the argument from design (a painter needs a painting so the universe needs a creator). The RRS shot that down easily with the standard if all things need a creator, who created God. If God doesn't need one, why does the universe.

From there the debate wandered back and forth. The attempts to attack evolution were weak and infantile, but the defense wasn't much better. The Q&A session from the audience was... painful. The crowd was hyped and made even worse points than the participants. At the end of the day, the debate went mostly in favor of the atheists. I admit some bias there, but I also feel the only reason they won the debate is because their requirements were lower. Kirk and Comfort promised to prove God and disprove evolution. They failed on both counts. The RRS was able to poke holes in most of the arguments put forth without messing up too badly.

All and all, a good debate. Not great. But as good as you can expect given the low caliber of the participants. Obviously too long for a half hour TV program though, so we head off to editing. And this is where Nightline takes out the garden hose and starts working on getting the golf ball. Honestly, the editing was atrocious. They spent over a quarter of the time talking about the panel. Far more than needed, particularly focusing on Kirk Cameron, and his ex-celebrity status. They they started the hatchet job.

Even being as even handed as possible, the aired program rarely showed anything resembling a debate. One side would present part of a position, then the editors cut to a partial rebuttal from the opposing side. They never let either side really finish statements or thoughts. Further, they edited a lot of the discussion out to show the worst of each side's points. In my personal opinion, they went so far as to edit out a large number of the atheists responses, most importantly the part that framed their position: The religious side had not scientifically proven God's existence. The cut version makes the entire debate come out as a draw. I don't think anyone watching the full version would get that impression.

It's disgusting. I don't know if it's editorial bias or simply an attempt to seem balanced for a national audience. Either way, it's dishonest. The debate did not end the way Nightline displayed. They left so much on the cutting room floor that is changed the result.

I suppose it's more reason for me to go right back to watching the Daily Show and the Colbert Report during Nightline's time slot.

Comments, Pingbacks:

Comment from: Larathiel [Visitor] Email
JV squad to be sure. The biggest complaint I have about all of this nonsense is that id doesn't ACCOMPLISH *anything*. All it serves is to get a network ratings or a political party votes. However the very real side-effect of all this nonsense is that it serves to futher divide a populace that should be trying to pull together...
PermalinkPermalink 05/10/07 @ 10:17
Comment from: Dunsinane [Visitor] Email
Slight inaccuracy... the reason Comfort/Cameron and the RRS were there had nothing to do with Nightline choosing them. Comfort specifically issued a challenge to the RRS as a result of the Blasphemy challenge, and ABC decided to pick it up because they'd done stories on both groups in the past.

As for dividing a populace, how does this divide us any more than we already are? Christian fundamentalism and rising activist atheism are inevitably going to clash in the political arena over issues of rights and separation of church and state, as well as the continuing silliness of teaching creationism (errrr, Intelligent Design? No? Teaching the controversy? Critical Analysis? Whatever codeword they come up with next for the same non-scientific look at science?)
PermalinkPermalink 05/10/07 @ 10:30
Comment from: Roulette [Member] Email
Oh, I know that Comfort started this. Sorry if I wasn't clear there That doesn't change the fact that both sides are still minor league players when it comes to discussing the issues here. I can think of a host of better speakers on BOTH sides of the issues that I would rather listen to than these four.

I also find an issue with the division argument. I think fundamental issues like this divide us already. Refusing to discuss them logically and maturely continues that division. I just don't think that putting blinders on is an acceptable way of moving past issues like this.
PermalinkPermalink 05/10/07 @ 10:47
Comment from: Larathiel [Visitor] Email
In ages long past, gentlemen could actually agree to disagree and still treat one another with civility and respect.

With regard to classroom time, it shouldn't take more than 2 minutes *tops* to state that along with modern science's best theory (i.e. evolution) there are certain belief systems in the world that have other ideas about how things happened. Of course, it would be more appropriate for Social Studies to be the class in which so-called "non-scientific" theories are discussed. Public schools can't "push" belief systems on their students nor should they. However, in order to be a well rounded citizen of the world, it's worth acknowledging that not everyone on the planet shares the same view point. Now more than ever it's important to teach kids the importance of being able to coexist with peoples of different cultures or beliefs (even if they don't share them). After all, isn't that the premise under which the US was founded?
PermalinkPermalink 05/10/07 @ 23:36
Comment from: Dunsinane [Visitor] Email
Sorry, Lara - I see no reason to treat demonstrated liars with civility and respect, and that applies to the vast majority of those promoting creationism. One needs only observe the deliberate misrepresentation on their part of the statements of advocates of evolution (quote mining, it's called). Those who simply follow those positions I am more lenient toward, until they get to the point of hard-wired illogic and rhetoric themselves.

To address your points:

1) No, it wouldn't take more than two minutes. Then again, that's not what those arguing for the various forms of creationism in the schools want. They want significant time to push their misrepresentations and arguments from ignorance and incredulity - specifically in science classrooms. I also see no reason to allow them into non-science classrooms - I doubt any significant percentage of students taking middle school biology haven't heard the Adam and Eve story from Genesis, and I don't think you want us to throw that in with a mythological grab bag including Norse, Egyptian, and Japanese creation stories.

2) Evolution is indeed modern science's best theory. It is supported by our findings in genetic biology, paleontology, physiology, botany, geology, cosmology, developmental biology, and molecular biology... and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Creationism/ID, conversely, is indeed a non-scientific theory, and not just a "so-called" one as you indicate. Both ignore empirical evidence that disagrees with their positions, deliberately lie about it, or attempt to discredit it through improper application (various dating methods leap to mind). Neither of these theories can predict, neither can be tested, and at their core they are nothing more than stock fallacy arguments from incredulity (I can't conceive of any other way it could have happened, therefore God did it).

3) The modern creationist movement is based on the majority religion in the US. The number of populated regions you can go in the US without having to deal with Christians on a daily basis can probably be counted without taking your mittens off. Promoting their beliefs in the classroom does nothing to teach kids about getting along with other cultures that they don't already know.

4) No, it wasn't. The US was founded on individual rights, primarily freedom of property and belief, combined with one of the most successful tax revolts in history. The Christian, the Deist, the Muslim, the Jew, the Hindu, the Buddhist, and the Atheist are free to despise one another all they want and stick their noses up in the air when they walk down the street. They don't, in large part because it isn't in their economic interests to do so. I suggest a few weeks of reading Locke and Smith, or at least flipping through the Cliff Notes, to find out why that works.
PermalinkPermalink 05/11/07 @ 19:21
Comment from: odessa [Member] Email
Evolution, not creationism, belongs in science class. First, it is a theory developed by a scientist - a theory, not a belief system. In no other segment of science does theology try to offer an alternate explanation. Second, even the most devout fundi christian must concede that Darwin's theory is a good study of how a scientific theory is developed. As a mere example of how a scientific theory is developed, Darwin's Theory is useful. Its also proof that no theory has to be perfect, just a reasonable explanation of the facts presented. If there was no doubt, then it would be a law (i.e. Newton Law of Gravity).
PermalinkPermalink 05/15/07 @ 15:22

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